He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. :( Will re-record hopefully soon! Thank you Brandt for sharing your experiences. Daniel Kahneman speaks in terms of efficient Thinking Fast biases that unconsciously deploy the WYSIATI (What-You-See-Is-All-There-Is) heuristic, which has proved itself sufficiently satisficing for selection. If I applied Vatican II to the full breadth of Catholicism, I clearly misspoke (Im not even sure why I would make such a sweeping claim, so I am a tad mystified). Now, along with all of the other historical and literary problems, including DNA evidence, we are suppose to accept it on feelings and the spirit.like all religions do with their own faiths.and be excited about sharing this book with our friends! By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. [2][3], At first Metcalfe was placed on 30 days probation by the LDS Security department and ordered to "sever yourself from involvement with people, groups, or publications that teach doctrines, privately or publicly, which are contrary to those of the Prophet." And a small footnote: Many of these original founders had been part of an on-campus group, called the Open Door Club. Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hoffman's eventual plea deal. dave davies wife. In the past, we often got snippets of information in The Church News, Two more parts (3 & 4) to come. Nicely done, John. Should have added one more minor thing. She has become the matron saint of Mormon studies (that's a promotion from her previous role as the den mother of Mormon studies). Thank you for sharing it with me. Long question, sorry ! She was excommunicated for it and it was ironic that her uncle, David O'McKay, was a member of the twelve apostles at the time (and later became Prophet.) Brent most recently served with the Information Security/Communication Security with the Wyoming Army National Guard as an IT Specialist. Now, alas, Im left to figure out why I dont personally do more to address the real-life hell that is meanwhile breaking loose in the world, now that I understand also that no gods exist to help us. Again, Im not sure that you would disagree with any of this. [3] Current historians tend to agree that Scotford and Soper joined forces to sell the fake relics for personal profit. Theres the answer. Thank you both in advance. I just discovered this on my own I bought every single issue of the 7th East Press, and was so disappointed that I missed picking up the final April Fools issue which appeared around campus after the edict banning it from being sold on campus. "Mark deceived everyone," Co-director Jared Hess told Deseret News. Surely, anyone who was even moderately sure of themselves in this case would have responded such as this : We have no idea where this letter came from, theres absolutely no truth in it and we disregard it completely.we maintain Josephs account to be true Release Calendar Top 250 Movies Most Popular Movies Browse Movies by Genre Top Box Office Showtimes & Tickets Movie News India Movie Spotlight. But I have a question for Brent. hope my comment wasnt insensitive! 2 Introduction at court. October 20, 2021. I went to BYU and graduated with honors but I did everything I could to get out of reading or to read beforehand what I could be asked to read out loud. Sandra was criticized by some Mormon Stories listeners for not being as critical of Christianity as she was of Mormonism. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. But it has not always been that way or worked in his favor. All this transpired in the 1980s, just around the time Mark Hofmann made his name in the community as a renowned book and document dealer. hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. Im glad the church and BYU tried and I dont blame them for making the attempt to shore up the Book of Mormon. Thats something each person must decide for themselves, but Ive made peace with my own interpretation.. Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. Wow John, what an interview. Do you believe that your martial arts and mental training has contributed to your belief system and the independence from the crowd? At one point John asks you if you think JS was putting together a scam or if you believe that he believed it himself. Im not excited anymore. If God will ultimately judge us all, why are mere mortals judging mortals, with the illusion of acting for God? I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. :-) I really R E A L L Y loved the podcast, and will listen to it all again today. Why didnt the Lord reveal to the the prophet that Hofmann was going to kill? pigella miraculous ladybug power. As I went towards the house, this thought came into my mind, why do I feel so different from what I did a short time past : I am unspeakably happy and shall never see trouble again.. Rude Dog Never fear! Lynn Jacobs was looked at carefully, I believe Brent Metcalf was looked at somewhat. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. Yet a solid and detailed examination oflhe pre suppositions, methods, arguments, and conclusions of the vari ous readings of the Book of Mormon would still be very use Thanks so much for posting this. How have things changed over the decades? Brent Metcalf's last collegiate wrestling match was a highly anticipated one. location 502, 899, 5027 of 9578, Last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, "The LDS intellectual community and church leadership: A contemporary chronology", BOOK OF MORMON SCHOLARS UNLEASH SALVO OF BARBS, "MAPPING BOOK OF MORMON HISTORICITY DEBATESPART I", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brent_Lee_Metcalfe&oldid=1129585083, This page was last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30. Im glad you found some of my remarks useful and thanks for the kind comments. I wish we could let go of the idea that a person can only be an expert in a particular field if they have a college degree saying they are. Over the years you just reason, that a faith shouldnt be that complicated. This negative sentiment is perhaps made up for by Hofmann's victims. Contributions. After that day I moved to the back of the class and felt like the only straight A student retard at BYU. These other people that had experiences dont seem to have a similar backlash evident. I have heard metaphysics mentioned in one of the interviews (I think it was the one on post declaration polygamy). I dont agree with all the conclusions of your research but the research is a gift to all of us. The lack of discernment all the way back throughout all the church history The lack of congruence among the leadership with such a claim as who they say is at the head! Growing up in the Eleventh Ward, you seemed very different than the Terry, Larry and Scott group. Im pretty sure I was standing next to Maxine. Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. Were they hiding behind Christensen for some reason? ), Visitation of Hertfordshire 1572 & 1634 (London, 1886), 116. On acquiring a PhD, after a year of university, apart from a lack of finances, I quickly noticed that the degree factory isnt a reflection on ones intelligence. When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. I thought you were very well spoken Brent. What scenario for the books origins have you constructed over your many years of study? This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. "[10], Naifeh, S., & Smith, G. W. (2005). The portion you quoted is an example of what I dub a conversion epiphany (as I mentioned in the podcast). and our [4], In 1993 Metcalfe organized a group of scholars to publish a series of essays that sought to apply techniques of higher criticism to the Book of Mormon. Joseph didnt go like a lamb to the slaughter in burning down personal property he broke the law in a major way. In 1994, Professor David Wright of Brandeis University and editor Brent Metcalf were excommunicated for their scripture studies in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology In 1995, author Janice Allred was excommunicated for her writings about Mother in Heaven. Published by on October 31, 2021. Trent Nelson | The Salt Lake Tribune Dorie Olds is the ex-wife of Mormon bomber Mark Hofmann, who killed two people on Oct. 15, 1985. You guys at MS are doing great. Talk about ADD. I appreciate the details of Brents experience. I've debated whether or not I should write about this, as I'm well aware the reception may be inflammatory, however it's something I'd like to get off my chest. what happens if i ignore a ccj; Let me be equally clear that I dont believe that the BoAbr is an authentic translation of the papyri he possessed. So my question is, what if the effort for the book of Abraham was an attempt by JS and his close friends to deliver an esoteric masterpiece. [9] When it became rumored that Metcalfe had lost his belief in the historical claims of the LDS Church, Christensen terminated the project and fired Metcalfe. Hearing Brent break down the Hoffman timeline and story was amazing. In Part 2, Brent describes working for and with Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter episode, and the bombings that took the lives of Steve and Kathy Sheets. Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets). brent metcalfe excommunicated. [9] Metcalfe became a suspect himself at one point in time. But this podcast is filled with way more than you will get in the book or documentary. In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. In another post Ill comment on the Mark Hoffman affair. I think that the Salt Lake LDS church is concerned with becoming the RLDS church, which has changed its narrative to a very noncompelling one, and about 80% of its members have left. This was an important, affecting interview. All rights reserved. OMAHA, Neb. My good friend Matt Christensen digitized the 7th East Press and was kind enough to allow Signature Books to make it available on their incredible digital library. Joyce Skabelund October 9, 1938 January 10, 2023 Our mother, grandma, and friend, Joyce Roth Skabelund, 84, departed this life on 10 January 2023. If the Prophet cant see Hoffman as a fraud, why should anyone assume their Bishop/Stake president has any more ability in terms of divinely inspired discernment? There are so many parallels between the happenings in my LDS life and Brents, (although nothing to such depth and notoriety) I was drawn to find more information about his life, while he was in the church and out. Brent, thank you so much for doing this interview! Ultimately, Id say (and I dont know that youd fundamentally disagree here) that its impossible to separate traditions like Catholicism or Mormonism from their fundamental and unique truth claims. 100% CAUCASIAN Our ethnicity data indicates the majority is Caucasian. You seem to be back on your game of simply inviting your guests to tell their stories. I understand the church spent large sums of money on BYU professors and private research to bolster the Book of Mormon claims through archeological discoveries.unfortunately they have not found what they had hoped for. I know about the September 6 and there are others. Shortly after returning home and leaving the church he was very active in Sunstone and various things of that nature, but has since moved on with his life and seems very happy with a small family of his own running a small restaurant he and his older brother own together. The gift of your ADHD shines. But those were interesting times! Thanks for the clarification, Brent. Maxine Hanks was also in my ward. Looking around me, every object was changed, and a bright glory appeared on everything. In Episode 497, Brent Metcalfe shares an interesting fact that when Steve Christensen was called to be a Bishop that he told his Stake President that he would never excommunicate a member of his ward and if that was a problem that he wouldnt accept the calling. The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. This is one that definately left me wanting more. I believe Brent said he has the copy in his records.**. I may have a chance to look for it next week, but Im not promising anything. He is their emotional support and Sue's constant companion, her voice, advocate and her angel. brent metcalfe excommunicated. [9] Metcalfe and the police were afraid Metcalfe might be a future target he went into hiding. It was stillbecause it all drove from the incredibility of the whole thing. I thought Brents response to this question very touching and informative and dont see that his research should be discredited. Its done. This is what led me here! She is professor emeritus of history at Read more As coincidence would have it, a few months later I became her home teacher. Ive heard there might. How would it be different from other books that deal with the same subject? Its great to find all this background information. had the same reaction to the Sandra Tanners interview. I struggled in school with learning how to read for years and this resulted in me developing crippling anxiety any time I was aced to read in public. But Ashment, a fellow member of the church, said he was disgusted with those who publicly protested the church action at a rally for Murphy on Salt Lake City's Main Street plaza Sunday night. Please, God, let this podcast inspire someone to produce a talk show called, Hot-tubbing with Mark Hoffman! Thanks for the clarification. My mind was calm and at peace with God through the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world. 2005, page 147, 180, Sillitoe, L., & Roberts, A. D. (1988). The name sounds so familiar (I was a Wandsworth baptism as a teenager in 77). Since unit growth of the church is now in decline and growing slower than U.S. and world population growth, how do you see the future of the church and its doctrines? He eventually concluded that the document was not an actual historical account and compiled a book of essays suggesting the same, entitling it New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, published in the 90s. And how many. Brent Lee Metcalfe's Assumptions and Methodologies Reviewed by William 1. Download . Powered by WordPress.com VIP. What a fascinating glimpse. As Jeremy Runnells (a la Kirby Ferguson) has said, everythings a remix. Were they watching us? Honestly, incredible work. For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. 0% MARRIED He could have never imagined the true extent of Marks crimes, though. I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. I love the podcasts. How did you encourage this masterpiece which, in my opinion, decimates the churchs past claims on the BofA? It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." I just shook my head to hear the tale of the magisterium giving you the boot, Brent. We may be on our own and need to create our own justice and future, but its possible that Providence does in fact sometimes intervene. It was torturous turning out essays to suit a particular lecturers preferences in order to gain high marks. Excellent question. I think we ought to be okay with these questions, and not automatically defensive. He has also served in the United States Air Force (Air National Guard) since 2004. I think that it speaks volumes about their powers of discernment and what they truly think about Joseph Smith. ), systematically undermining Church teachings on the law of chastity and the . John Dehlin Faces Excommunication. When Brent Metcalfe compiled a book of essays last year suggesting that Mormonism's founding scripture wasn't the ancient history it purports to be, he expected some criticism. Great interview. They buried the Mclellin diaries also.similar thingdidnt like the content. A question for Brent, What are your thoughts on your research of the book of Abraham? Examples would be projects at the Serpent Mounds in Ohio, linguists studying things like Native Americans singing in a language that seemed close to Hebrew,archaeological digs in latin America that were obviously BOM related, etc. Sorry for my language, Im not a native English speaker and there is a limit to what I can express in English. Thanks for the interview both of you. Whatever the reasons, thanks again for your research that revealed there was MTSTWIS (More-To-See-Than-What-I-Saw). I was hoping you would have spoken more about the Book of Mormon and Abraham. Ive followed Mormon stories for several years now and listed to most of the episodes and this interview with Brent Metcalfe is in my top 5 MS podcasts. The failure of faith concept was very interesting, and I can only say but for the grace of God. But once Mormonism got involved, it turned everything upside down. In Part 4, Brent examines some of the issues surrounding traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. So, considering all that they had been through, when Mark was named a suspect, Brent didnt even think twice before defending his friend on television. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: He knew forger and bomber Mark Hofmann personally. Brent did Jerald make an official overture to church leadership regarding Hofmann being a fraud? Little trace of Morison survives for much of the early 1540s, but it is clear that he built up his landed base and attached himself to . So, based on Krakauers shared experience, it sounds like the answer is no, Hofmann doesnt do interviews. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. I have to assume hes simply speaking on the basis of snippets of information here and there without context, because this is clearly untrue. Ack! hendrick motorsports hats; brent metcalfe excommunicated Visit with the Skabelund family, 9:30-10:30 am,. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Is there going to be a part 3? As a Mormon History and Rare Document Researcher, Brent Metcalfe has unparalleled knowledge of the religion and its connections in Utah. I hope to move on some day as well. The church history claims there was a great uproar about this youth that claimed to have a vision of God. Categories . They have proven time and time again that that is all they care about. Brent has become one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham. I think that the group is called FIRM, lead by Rod Meldrum, Jake Hilton, and Wayne May. 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. All of these documents are available on the Joseph Smith Papers Project website. So sorry for the delay!!!! Do as I say and not as I do. This was something I surmised most of my adult life. Unresolved: Release in which this issue/RFE will be addressed. Or if you have any thoughts on this John? Steve Christiansen was my bishop in that centerville ward and I grew up with his children. Brent Metcalfe, Sue's husband of 23 years, is doing everything he can to support both Sue and Samantha. In episode #276 of The Jimmy Rex Show, we sit down with a key role in Netflix Documentary Murder Among The Mormons, Brent Metcalfe.Visit and Listen to more. funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. I was in a mission conference in Bolivia when Steves younger brother was called out and told of the murder. Life changing! Riveting stuff. Wouldnt it have been more humorous to wait until *after* the issue was mailed out before bringing the Metcalfe is Butthead acrostic to the attention of FARMS authorities? The 7th East Press is one of the great university newspapers; truly the stars aligned when this group got together. Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. Brent Metcalf. Unfortunately, much of the middle portion of the interview was lost due to technical issues that were only discovered after we completed the interview. As for the photocopy of Wilford Poulsons parallel, yes, I still have it in one of hundreds of boxes in a storage unit while my house is being remodeled. Brent, are you still working on a Book of Abraham book? Thank you so much for being so open and honest that particular issue. My application of Vatican II was specifically intended for the work of Catholic biblical scholars, not Catholicism in toto. I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. We were both greenies at the same time. brent metcalfe excommunicated. My faith failed me and that led to crisis. Best wishes, Brent! He told the story of writing at least a few letters to Hofmann in prison asking for an interview. If you were to interview Mark Hofmann, what would your top questions be? This was an excellent broadcast! It instead discusses the fact that the LDS Church keeps some documents secret. Like I said they were casting that net as wide as they could get it. I am very excited to announce that I will soon be interviewing Brent Metcalfe. Thank you, I didnt know about that info. Those mind-opening essays impacted my life in positive and powerful ways. Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. This is one of the best MS interviews I have heard so far. Hi Brent, Thank you for your insights and open heart. There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. That makes more sense. It was so, so interesting. For more information, please see our Read More: Where is Terri Christensen Now? @John, thank you for all the hours you put in. I can hardly wait for the rest! Lance is a Gnostic priest and has written and spoken extensively on the Gnostic and esoteric flavor of Joseph Smiths writings. Lex, you might be interested in the work of Lance Owens. Part 1 of the interview stuck much closer to home for me. Phooey to that. I have that info direct from Mac himself. Be the first to contribute! "BoMor" is a contraction preferred by Brent Metcalfe, who edited the book in which this paper appeared, and who likewise does not believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon -- Metcalfe was exxed I think sometime after the infamous September Six. As soon as we can! Vol. The message was discovered after his review had gone to press and had to be edited out. Liked by Brent Metcalfe Experience Practice Lead - Mergers and Acquisitions/Investment Group and Consultant Backswath Management Sep 2022 - Present6 months Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Seeking New. Please share your feeling about this observation as well, and how this may affect future missionary work, growth of the church and most importantly the individual peace of mind of its members. What do you attribute this decline to? When we taught the Book of Mormon story, it was part of our presentation. Do you know if the church took down the names of all the 7th East Press people? Metcalfe believed that his firing was because of a few people in church leadership who perceived him as a threat, even though he viewed his own work as apologetic and not scholarly. All he had to say publicly if there was really no truth in it, was its simply not true and leave it at that. Thank you Brentyou are certainly one of the true Saturdays Warriors Thank you Mormonstories.org I am glad I came across your website! Brent_Metcalfe 7 yr. ago To clarify 4blockhead's list. We had some technical difficulties. Im not sure why I would have been hesitant to answer the question during the interview since Ive addressed it numerous timesIll have to go back and listen.
